Flash 8 to CS4 upgrade...files are running slow

[BRAIN00053]

We've just recently upgraded Flash 8 to Flash CS4. All the work that we did in
flash 8 are now running slow when we try to work with the files in flash CS4.

The files have vector symbols created in Flash 8. These are cartoon character
puppets made up of solid non gradient fills. Within the main puppet are various
nested symbols of head, arm, hand, and leg symbols. the problems that we
experience are of following nature:

1) files with more complex symbols on stage. delay is about 3-5 seconds.
2) selecting and transforming objects
3) scrubbing the timeline
4) changing tools and saving files

Any help would be highly appreciated.

thanks,
tharaka

[Walter Elias]

I'm having the same problem, maybe even worse than you. Same exact situation:
opening cartoon character animations created in Flash 8, all flat fills. If I
click on a symbol it can take up to 15 seconds before it becomes active.
Double-clicking a symbol to get inside it actually causes warnings that Flash
is not responding. Wait close to 30 seconds and I can then edit inside the
symbol.

Same problem changing tools. At least a 10-second delay.

This did not happen when opening the identical Flash 8 animations in CS3.

What, is Flash having the same horrible sluggishness problems as Photoshop
CS4? I didn't think Flash relied on OpenGL.

I have a very lean system, with no junk installed, every driver up to date, no
problems with any non-CS4 apps.

Between the absolute uselessness of Photoshop CS4 due to lag, and the
sluggishness of Flash CS4 plus some minor but lethal bugs which will probably
never be fixed, I'm ready to trash the whole suite.

Only CS4 app that seems to work well for me is Dreamweaver. Funny: that was
one of the two CS4 apps that was open for public beta. It was actually a real
mess when they released the beta - about as messy as Flash and Photoshop are
now. They got huge amounts of feedback and guess what? Dreamweaver CS4 is
pretty tight.

Maybe if all Adobe apps were open to public beta testing, rather than relying
on a small group of power users (who, being advanced, tend not to use the more
mundane tools the rest of us use), then they might actually fix the bugs before
they release the programs.

[san_flash]

Hi Walter,

Is it possible that you send us your fla? ***@adobe.com

Thanks,
San

[Walter Elias]

San, the FLA is 66 MB. And it's an animation project under a non-disclosure
agreement with the producer. I would need Adobe to also sign some NDA papers
before I could release it.

Also, before you say "Ah-ha! 66 MB! No wonder it runs slow!", note that it
loads and works instantly in Flash 8 and CS3.

[san_flash]

Is it possible to narrow down to just the symbols that are having the problem?

[BRAIN00053]

hey, are you the same San guy replying to my brainpop email address? :) We can send you an FLA file if we can sign an NDA with you. can you check with your folks about NDAs?

thanks,
tharaka

[Walter Elias]

Same here. We're working on commercial animation projects and can't release anything to anybody, even Adobe engineers, without an NDA. Cheers.

[san_flash]

Yes, I'm the same person that has been in touch with you Tharaka. I'll check
on the NDA but I have a feeling it might not be possible to sign it on behalf
of the company :(
In the mean time, we'll keep trying different animation flas we have to
reproduce the problem.

Walter, what's in the symbol? how many frames in the nested symbol and what
are on those frames? Is the ActionScript version AS 2.0 or AS 3.0 in the fla?
Please try closing the Properties Inspector, then double click on the symbol to
enter the edit mode and see if you can reproduce the problem.

Thanks,
San

[BRAIN00053]

Thanks for all your good efforts, San! Hope we'll find a solution soon before they eat me alive over here :-) J/K

thanks,
tharaka

[Walter Elias]

San, I'll answer your last question very simply:

EVERY symbol. Not just one. EVERY symbol. Check your PM. I wrote you even more
details.

All symbols are cartoon animation drawings: fingers, hands, legs, background
elements. You name it. All just plain drawings with lines and fills. Quite a
few are nested animations. But it is not only the nested animations which have
the terrible delay. Did I say it? Every symbol.

Not just symbols. Everything about these files is slow. Click on the lock to
unlock or lock all layers. You have time to go make a cup of coffee between the
moment you click and when all the layers respond. Even if there are only 3
layers in a symbol.

The FLAs are Flash 8, AS2, but containing no ActionScript.

I'm working on a project created in Flash 8. It contains 8 different FLA files
of around 3 minutes animation each, at 25 fps. So between 3000 and 5000 frames.
Each scene within those FLAs is a nested animation. So for example, scene 1 is
350 frames, within a Graphic Symbol. That symbol is placed on the timeline for
350 frames. And so on. Inside those nested animations are more nested
animations of individual characters. Inside the character symbols are more
nested animations for things such as the character mouths. This is an
absolutely unremarkable and normal workflow for animation production in Flash.

I tried opening over a dozen such files, created by different people on
different computers in different OSs, but all done in Flash 8. Same trouble.

Never was a problem until CS4 came along. I wish I could somehow let you try
these files. But between the NDA requirements and the file sizes, it seems not
possible.

And please check your PM about the other lethal problem of the Graphic Symbols
resetting when color effects are applied. Between the lag problem and the
Graphic Symbol resetting bug, I've sounded the alarm to all the animators I
know to postpone getting Flash CS4 until these troubles are fixed. Which is too
bad, since you guys really tried to give us animators a treat with the IK and
Motion Editor.

[BRAIN00053]

hey san,

any progress? let us know!

thanks,
tharaka

[san_flash]

The NDA request will take very long and I'm not sure if it'll even be possible
for us to get one signed with you. However, we're able to get a file with a
similar reported problem without signing the NDA so we're looking at trying to
reproduce it now. Will post an update.

Thanks,
San

[san_flash]

We're able to reproduce the performance issues with the file we received.
However, we can't be 100% sure that they are the same problems that you are
running into with your files. Please stay tune. We're looking at the problems
and might need your help confirming the fix with your files.

Thanks,
San

[Walter Elias]

San, instead of waiting to confirm a fix with files that brain00053 and I can't
send you for legal reasons, why not simply fix the problem you've detected and
publicly release a patch to Flash which addresses this and the many other bugs
which have been confirmed? Or at least let those of us with this and other
problems have a test version of the program to see whether your solutions work
for all these bugs? I'll be glad to sign an NDA with Adobe, promising not to
release the test version of Flash CS4 to anyone else.

[san_flash]

Hi Walter,
As I said before, please stay tune. We're investigating the problem to find a safe fix for it.
Thanks,
San

[BRAIN00053]

Hi San,

Any breaking news? let us know!

thanks,
tharaka

[abeall]

Try changing the ActionScript version to 2.0 if that is an option. I've also found that AS3 projects in both CS3 and CS4 go horribly slow when you try to work inside symbols.

[BRAIN00053]

Hi San,

Any updates?

thanks,
tharaka

[Walter Elias]

I'd like to know the latest too. And get a patch to use CS4 properly.

And by the way, changing ActionScript version makes no difference. All I'm
doing (and Brain00053 too) is opening Flash 8 projects in CS4. They are AS2
format to begin with.

[BRAIN00053]

Hey San,

Happy New Year! Please get back to us with an update. it's been almost 2 weeks
since we last heard back from you. Please also tell us when you think will
Adobe have a fix for this issue.

Thanks,
Tharaka

[san_flash]

We're looking at the problems. I'm sorry I can't say if there will be a patch. However, we are aware of these performance issues and taking them seriously.

San

[Walter Elias]

[q][i]Originally posted by: [b][b]san_flash[/b][/b][/i]
We're looking at the problems. I'm sorry I can't say if there will be a
patch. However, we are aware of these performance issues and taking them
seriously.
San[/q]

So, San, let me try to understand your reply: You are "aware of these
problems" and you are "looking at them", but I notice you didn't actually say
"we are [i]working[/i] on them."

That's like a doctor saying he's aware that the patient's shin bone is
sticking out of his skin, and he's looking at it, but can't say whether he'll
actually fix it.

My interpretation of your answer is that no one is actually putting any effort
into fixing the code to come up with a proper working version of Flash CS4. How
accurate is my statement, on a scale of 0 to 10?

Because I'll tell you how useful Flash CS4 is to my studio: 0.

[BRAIN00053]

Hi San,

any progress? please update us!

thanks,
tharaka

[C-Rock]

I've found this problem with all Flash version if what you're trying to move or
even select is too complicated.

For instance I had a project that used a large vector map of the US. The map
was fairly detailed. If you looked closely the edges were very jagged meaning
Flash had to use memory and gpu power just to draw each pixel. Because of this
it performed slow doing anything with the map on the stage. Flash 8.

Flash forward to CS4, I imported a text animation from AE today like many
times before but this one was a little more complex. When trying to position
this clip I would have to select all the frames and all the objects by using
the multiple frame select. This took over 10 seconds for Flash to respond to a
simple shift+up arrow command. Just because Flash had to use so many resources
to draw it.

Now why is it more slow in CS4 than 8? CS4 was rushed and is crap in my
opinion. I've owned each flash from flash 3 and this is the worst, by far. This
is Adobe's first real release of Flash.

I would say the best thing you can do is make your view the lowest quality as
possible and hide all text on the stage. That may improve your redrawing so you
can at least work.

Flash needs the ability to adjust performace similar to PS and AE. I have 12
GB's of memory and a $1,000 cpu but Flash doesn't tap into much of it at all.

[san_flash]

Here's an update. We are working on fixing some bugs at this moment. Please
understand that there are rules that I need to follow in what I can say on the
forums. I'm allowed to say that we are working on some bug fixes. However, I
cannot say if there's a patch coming or not.

Thanks,
San

[the flashster]

The sad thing, is you don't even have to be animating for the performance to be
incredibly slow. I don't do animation, so I can't sympathize with that but my
application fla is the same way when there are a decent (what I thought
somewhat small or standard) number of objects on the stage, the time is SLOW. I
do lots of code based projects, so something else that is really slow: try
right-clicking on an exported symbol, and choosing properties. CS4's record to
date: 15 Seconds. WHY? One thing I have noticed with it, is it appears to be
reading something from my network. Isn't the file already open in memory? Or at
least paged on to the HD?

[Fede Rivas]

I have simply discard CS4 and go backward to CS3, it was impossible for me to
work.

As other users, i'm not an animator, and have few mc's at stage, most of them
with classes attached, and is a real hell to try to work, most if you have some
.fla opened.

I hope Adobe work in a decent update, i thing it's a shame for a company like
adobe release a "final version" like the one we have. It's more like a beta.

[san_flash]

flashster,

Is your document AS 2.0 or AS 3.0? If it's AS 3.0, please try narrowing it
down for us by changing it to AS 2.0 and see if it's still slow. If it's
happening in AS 2.0 file, it's similar to the performance problems that were
reported in this thread and I'd like to confirm that.

Thanks,
San

[san_flash]

Fede Rivas and the flashster,
Is it possible to provide us the source fla? We're fixing some performance
bugs and it'll be great to check whether your case is covered or not.
***@adobe.com
If you're sending zip file, please change the file extension to .zzz so it can
get through our mail filter.

We're unable to sign a NDA for your files but we'll use your file for testing
purposes only.

Thanks,
San

[Fede Rivas]

Hi San.

I can send you the file, but my problem wasn't a concrete file, the problem
was opening some files at the same time.

I use to write code in TextMate, and when i back to flash to compile, it hangs
about 15 secs to respond. With more than 5 files opened, it turns very very
slow, and takes over 10 seconds to respond a simple select to an mc in the
stage, and over 15 sec. to respond to a right click over a library simbol.

While i was suffering that problems, i see in my Activity Monitor ( OSX 10.5 )
that CS4 uses more than 40% of the cpu in standby, and more than 75% while
working, making all the computer feels like an old PII 300 .

When CS4 was restarted, things seems to work again, but after some minutes of
work, it was the same.

If you want, i can collect the files and send them to you, you can't compile
them due to the large amount of classes used in that files ( we dont send
classes ), but you can test the authoring tool with them.

[san_flash]

Fede Rivas,
Please send me the files, especially the fla file and let me know the symbol that takes long to select. Is there 3D in any of the fla files?
Thanks,
San

[Fede Rivas]

Hi San.

I can send you the file, but my problem wasn't a concrete file, the problem
was opening some files at the same time.

I use to write code in TextMate, and when i back to flash to compile, it hangs
about 15 secs to respond. With more than 5 files opened, it turns very very
slow, and takes over 10 seconds to respond a simple select to an mc in the
stage, and over 15 sec. to respond to a right click over a library simbol.

While i was suffering that problems, i see in my Activity Monitor ( OSX 10.5 )
that CS4 uses more than 40% of the cpu in standby, and more than 75% while
working, making all the computer feels like an old PII 300 .

When CS4 was restarted, things seems to work again, but after some minutes of
work, it was the same.

If you want, i can collect the files and send them to you, you can't compile
them due to the large amount of classes used in that files ( we dont send
classes ), but you can test the authoring tool with them.

[san_flash]

Richard Galvan, Flash product manager, has posted on his blog about the status of some of the bugs.
http://blogs.adobe.com/rgalvan/
He'll update his blog when there is more information.